Do the Change: Reimagining OEHS with Kevin Ru (Part 2)

In Part 2 of our most recent episode of #DoTheChange, we'll be featuring an amazing conversation with Kevin Ru, MPH, who currently studies increased risk of chronic disease in janitors. We'll talk about different ways people can get involved in occupational and environmental health and areas of concentration. We'll also explore how today's changing society might impact the field and open up opportunities for new professionals. Tune in to hear Kevin's tips on how to succeed in the field of OEHS. You can find the full transcript of this episode on our website: https://www.coeh.berkeley.edu/do-change-kevin-ru

Transcript

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hi everyone welcome back to part two of our conversation with our amazing speaker on the do to change podcast we're going to jump right back into the conversation don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Instagram at do to change podcast I wanted to ask you earlier when we were discussing like your personal Journey um if you had faced any like obstacles or any like significant setbacks that you were able to overcome and like how I'd say in terms of obstacles I think coming into public health or just starting my program I was still relatively new to the field of Public Health I'd say my training was mostly in biology and the undergrad I didn't took very limited Public Health courses not as many statistics courses so I think I definitely I felt like I came in a little bit behind compared to some my peers um in the program so I think that was kind of a challenge just to be a I think pushing myself to first uh feel be okay there is no nothing wrong with that at all I think everyone it's that's also the nice thing about a lot of the programs within Public Health especially in the Masters and the graduate program in general you have so many people coming from different points different stages in their lives and careers Etc where it's it's really nice to learn from a lot of these different perspectives and for me it also really motivated me to kind of just push myself to also learn and be proactive about my learning outside of the classroom as well there are specific um skills that I wanted to focus on making sure to take some time to maybe find some more resources related to those or not being afraid to ask of um ask for help if I needed it things like that kind of just taking advantage I feel like at a school like britley there's just so many different opportunities available for you but you really have to make sure you're being proactive and taking advantage of them because um they're not just going to fly to you per say for lack of a better word is that kind of like the advice you'd wish someone had told you when you entered the field uh I I would say so that would be a bit of it and also just really emphasizing how interdisciplinary I see oehs really is as a whole and I think being not being so as timid I guess and or afraid to make connections and go out and I think just whether it's talking to faculty or other professionals that are in the field in careers I feel like just being building and banking connections I think early on is just so important because that's that's really again like how it's so interdisciplinary this field how many different people you have kind of coming together not even just from the research standpoint but of course also the communities that are affected the workers the labor unions ex there's just so many different um policy makers um I think different parts to it and just making those connections I think really is important overall I feel like that's one of the scariest things for new professionals new graduates like with like exiting school and then entering this new field this new professional field that's full of people who feel like they know a lot more about it than you and like trying to find your own place in that right how were you able to um overcome that fear and then start networking I'd say for me in particular I think just kind of I feel like I just ended up becoming involved in a lot of different uh aspects of the school in the whole I think from there it was EAS just much easier in this being able to see a lot of familiar faces already already feel comfortable or already have um established connections with some individuals who could then perhaps introduce me or suggest me to speak with other individuals and from there I kind of it felt less intimidating from that sense or just knowing even just knowing one person I feel like and kind of even just seeking out advice for them oh how should I Pro approach these other individuals Etc I think is helpful and just and I think with a school like Berkeley and our School of Public Health I think everyone is already just so like collaborative so communicative and so um just open-minded and just always willing to chat and just talk and just discuss things and I think it's just makes it a lot easier and a lot less intimidating especially compared to when I was an undergrad I totally agree with that approach I think um that's also one of the more fun approaches like rather than a cold emailing or reaching out people on LinkedIn I feel like just getting involved in doing activities clubs organizations it's really fun you can get to know people as like friends and as mentors and as part of your network yeah exactly what would you say was like one of the best things you did when you first started one of the best things I did when I first started I would say is probably the summer seminar that's offered by The Dream office uh here at the school of Public Health um the dream office they put on a summer seminar every summer that starts right before the school year and is really meant to be a space to not only provide our support in particular our programming support to students but also just really create a space for students to feel connected um and just get to know one another and understand the resources that they have available to them um before to get started with at school and that was for me coming kind of moving to the barrier and not uh knowing that many people here not knowing anyone else searly kind of being able to meet new people um establish those connections early on I think really made a really big impact in making me feel much more comfortable in the fall semester already having and seeing familiar faces having study groups that were a lot easier to establish that was I think a really um big part of uh my experience and time here at Berkeley and I think and that's why I'm really I was really happy to be also be able to continue and work as a tutor through the dream office as well and still get back that support to students that's awesome that sounds like a like an perfect program for new students um can you define more what the dream office is yeah so the dream office they are focused on really promoting diversity equ and inclusion um specifically supporting uh more marginalized students and uh and people of color in public health really placing greater emphasis on just getting resources to those that are most in need and really making sure to provide those services to individuals that might often you might not see as um as often in public health and making sure to get them the resources that we need would you say that you're um involved with the EI in public health the I'd say so to a degree I I try at least just within my own practices but I uh was a part of student government for the past two years as well here at Berkeley um and that through that I was also able to help um promote some de initiatives just throughout Student Government itself as well as and hopefully kind of set out the found set up the foundation for future years um hopefully down the road as well as a whole Student Government body that's awesome um I've heard in my time at Co I've heard a lot of people talk about Dei in oehs is kind of like many people have the general opinion that it's kind of lacking and that was like also one of the part of um that was also part of like this podcast's mission to like uplift those who are like from populations that are not as well represented represented in the field of oehs professions would you agree with this like what's what do you what do you think about this I think it's challenging because for me I feel like with OHS as a field I think oftentimes individuals especially individuals I feel like that are may not have the resources to have access and understand what how to get into the field I think is a as a whole like just that first step to getting into the field I feel like for me I was fortunate enough to just stumble into uh the field and understand like being able to find a position with cooh I think things really lined up for me but necessarily I feel like not everyone has the knowledge and resources to actually understand like oh there are positions like for example just through CH there's these like programs academic programs and training ships for students who are interested in occupational health and safety to get involved in and that's not necessarily um as accessible to everyone I think that just that barrier of getting into the oehs field and knowing more about the O oehs field is challenging I think even um as we're trying to improve awareness and expand that education of resources which is why ultimately I think it's great that we're having a this podcast like this just uplift more of those voices and hopefully have more people see that they to can really be a part of this field as well yeah I totally agree uh where would you point those people in like where where would you point those people towards in order for them to like get to know these types of opportunities I think for me just being not being I think that ties back into just making those connections as well not being afraid to just talk to people I know cold emailing or cold calling is always very terrifying but at the end of the day uh a lot of individuals are very much willing to just talk to you about their experiences and I feel like talking to these current a lot of these current oos professionals and hearing about their backgrounds how they got to where they are now I think can be very helpful and understanding um your opportunities that are available to you maybe finding what might be a particular field that you're most interested what areas and expertise or what skills you might want to develop and understanding what your potential options are I think talking to individuals in the field are always going to be the most impactful I think you can always find a lot of information just online of course often times it's difficult ult to just know what to search a lot of times but I think even just going from there you you can find a lot of information of course but I think it's definitely very different when you hear from individuals personally that are in the field how they got there and understand what opportunities are available to you moving forward definitely I think this applies to most fields too there's like a different level of understanding from just like you as an outsider looking in on like Google articles compared to talking to someone who has been in the field yeah exactly yeah that's solid advice okay um can I segue or can I pivot a little bit and ask you different type of question yeah of course so okay can I ask you or um in your opinion what are some of the emerging Trends or challenges in the field that you think Young professionals should be aware of and like how do you see the future of the industry evolving great question I think in terms of emerging child think there's just there's really a lot I feel like that's emerging right now a lot of new innovation that's just being introduced we have this whole um a lot of especially as technology is advancing there's a lot of this um introduction of now wearables like exoskeletons if think ergonomics perspective I think there's a lot of potential benefits that are being brought in to play um that can potentially be very helpful to workers but I think at the same time as as we are evaluating a lot of these different um Technologies and different improvements I think we always want to make sure to be careful that we're not introducing more harm per se and we're actually benefiting the workers and that there's clear guidelines in place of how perhaps certain new equipment is being used Etc that we're still following those kind of stringent guidelines even as perhaps Technologies making task s things potentially easier I think as a whole in terms of challenges I think of course climate change is just a large issue as a whole and especially now we're do I feel like we're dealing with a lot more different exposures and concerns that might not have been prevalent or really seen prior for example like heat stress is a really increasing issue especially like in a state like California in certain the Central Valley a lot of workers are experiencing a lot of new exposures additional exposures that um are rising in concern so I think with the field like oehs I think and this isn't something emerging per se but I think it's just you really need to be patient and persistent with whatever your just the field as a whole I'd say in your research I think especially if you're trying to uh convince or enact uh convince new policy to get enacted things like that I think you really have to be persistent and patient because unfortunately a lot of things do move too slowly and as I was saying pre previously I think we're often too reactive in a lot of our changes that are made like only after something has occurred are we then trying to remedy it and preventing the future rather than kind of targeting those now but I'd say there is definitely a lot out there um in terms of what individuals can really expect coming their way and I think the field will only continue to develop and change over the next few years yeah climate change is a big one we I've heard that in every episode until now can I ask you um what type what specific um topics do you think is key for more new uh newcomers to field to get in on to like to contribute to the work of oh that's a good question I feel like there there's there's a lot of possibilities I'd say um with us just surround in heat I think like for example Farm Workers I think are always a very vulnerable population um and especially exposed to a lot of the issues surrounding heat I think recently there's been a lot more concern around like just even Community exposures to a certain air pollutants things like individuals often it's more marginalized populations that are living next to these like chemical plants refineries things like that and and I feel like understanding and actually addressing those changes is important and mitigating those various exposures outside of that I think as a field there's just there's just so many possibilities and so many I think different directions where you can go where I think really everything is very much needed right now there's really no I feel there's no shortage of different topics that are important to really delve into within the field that's true that's true and I've heard i' correct me if I'm wrong I've heard talk that there's less new professionals entering the field like less young people um oh in terms of the field of oos yeah I I that seems to yeah I be what I've heard as well through the Great Vine I think and I think that part of it is part of it I think is due to just individuals not knowing about opportunities in oehs in the field and others I think it might just not be as interesting to them compared to especially I feel like in with this recent Tech Surge and AI I feel like that has been taking more of the headlines and attention and ultimately especially as uh younger students are like looking at the news and on social media that's what they're I feel like consuming and seeing the most often rather than stories about oehs that's pretty unfortunate because even when it comes to Tech and AI I feel like so much of that has to do with obhs like um I was like I there's talk about gig workers and like um people who work for Uber and lift now like their boss is the algorithm rather than like a real person yeah no it's it's definitely has potentially pretty devastating imp imp implications for a lot of different work in positions and even with of course AI just also pushing people out of work too which is a whole another problem and of itself come to OES it's a message the people who are interested in Tech and AI come I mean and that's the thing there's a lot of potential I mean with machine learning or just Ai and Tech in general for and this really plays for any field but of course also to O us there is a lot of room for um utilizing that within the field of course and that really just speaks the interdisplinary inter disciplinary nature of the field yeah yeah can I ask you one totally unrelated question or not totally unrelated um earlier you said wearables and I see that I feel like that's a word that I hear a lot and I you're like kind of used often but I don't really know what that entails and I feel like the general population wouldn't either so yes of course so wearables and I am by no means an expert I am not Anon ergonomist and have not received training in that but uh for me I'd say wearables are essentially if we think about um just something like an exos like a wearable exoskeleton wearables are essentially they're meant to be a device that an individual can Weare on maybe the whether it's be a specific part of their body or their whole body like maybe it's a wearable for an ankle wearable or leg wearable for individuals with her perhaps more limited M ability or they're often working with the extremely large and heavy loads that can help support them and improve and make the work easier for them so they don't have to put as much strain on those muscles on those spe on their ankle or something Etc and that you can kind of assist them in going about their every every day and day-to-day test things like that and they're often might be wearables for like specific tasks and kind of being able to there's a lot that goes into it I feel like there's a lot of engineering of course and then ergonomics there's just a lot of moving Parts in the that sense as well that's really cool it feels almost science fiction like like you know an avatar where they have the people in like robot suits mea suits yes yes okay let me ask you another question about kind of like the field um or okay real quick are are there any are there any changes or advancements you hope to see in the field in the coming in the future I think for me some of the changes I hope to see beyond I think where we're already moving in a direction of integrating more technology and whether that's just monitoring or enhancing worker safety and of course that wearables as we just mentioned I think are important advancements in really just enhancing wor Place safety but I also think especially with some or just with this applies to a lot of different things but I think with oehs in particular and especially for some of these more precarious working positions I think just establishing more Community relationships I think is important as well and I think uh it's a good thing it's never not it's never not needed it's a for a li of a better word um where just I for example if we talk about the janitors in the janitor study a big issue we have is just having janitors feel comfortable just even participating in these studies in the first place I'd say um because at the end of the day like they there's not as much incentive to participate in these different studies they might be and instead there's a lot of fear potential retaliation from employers like what if I am per Performing in this study what if I'm choosing to participate in this study will I lose my job will I get in trouble what are the implications of this I like they need their jobs um in order to support themselves and others so I think establishing more Community Trust I think whether it with just local leaders like for example with union leaders or just leaders Within These like occupational communities or just communities as a whole whether we looking at occupational or environmental exposures I think that's always something important that uh individuals should just keep in mind as I think especially up andc coming researchers that were progressing to the field I think building that trust really makes a difference in just overall the um Quality and um just the effectiveness of the research you're really bringing in all your stakeholders in onto the table into this conversation and you're able to get a lot of perspectives that might have otherwise been left out um if they weren't included that's a very real consideration um what would you say your like how would you like to build these communities of trusts what would you think are the best methods I think the main methods that I would say as I mentioned were are really just establ like U I think if there are existing connections whether that's like through Union leadership if Yorkers are part of a union they have existing leadership with relationships with building that with the relationships with the Union having the union leaders for example discuss with the workers so they're hearing from an already trusted individual rather than just all these uh researchers kind of storming in that they've never seen before something like that I'd say would be a great step or just like beginning to build some of those Community Partnerships if they're not present already kind of taking that first step identify whether it's just local leaders within the communityin the occupation and finding perhaps also establish relationship ships with employers seeing employers that are very much of course there's a lot of employers that are very invested in enhancing and protecting their employees and their overall health so I think establishing some of those Community Partnerships can be a good first step as well that's awesome that all this requires a lot of like talking directly with um union workers and talking directly with like the people who you're researching is that the right term um do you feel like your day-to-day work involves that do you often go talk to the people who you're surveying um for my day-to-day work not in particular for like the data we or the surveys that we conducted they were all done over online um surveys that were turned in but I would say it definitely varies across the it just varies across various different studies and groups but I'd say that yeah you raise a good point in that where it's it's not always going to be feasible for individuals kind that's the one of the drawbacks of course it's it's a resource intensive for individuals to go out and actually speak to everyone every day and on the day-to-day basis but I think it's also important to continue to try to do that when possible and when actually feasible um to build those and there are individuals that are going out and pres like interviewing workers like in person of course and I think that helps kind of going build that report awesome yeah so so so um interdisciplinary uh okay let me pivot a little bit and let me can I ask you about more advice for new professionals so what do you think are key skills or quality someone would need to succeed in this field I'd say key skills to succeed are really Beyond just I think just of course the basics just a strong foundation in Public Health principles and study design methods things like that is really just I think and we touched on a bit earlier just the ability to really communicate and actually disseminate all these complex different informations clearly to different groups of individuals whether that be your workers policy makers because for each different group that you're speaking to you're going to have to need to tailor your presentation tailor the material that you're presenting in different ways and to highlight things that they'll actually matter to them that actually they will find meaningful and be able to take away from it be like oh this was actually useful I like oh I understand this I know how this can help me how I can use this information Etc I think just being able to be comfortable and engaging with different audiences um you're not always going to be in a room full of different Public Health individuals that all already know what you're talking about you don't have to explain I think I think being patient and understanding like okay the some things you will have to break down in very spefic specific way other you might not want to focus as much on this particular aspect you want to talk more about something else instead just to because that's what really matters to the workers for example that's more important than kind of driving home those key messages and kind of being concise at the end of the day I think in a lot of fields we always talk about the elevator pitch and being able to kind of just tell your story or a story like very succinctly in that amount of time and I think that of course will apply to O as well if not even more so just due to a often times especially if you're trying to engage in policy and things like that lawmakers or policy makers there's often very little time or window for you to potentially actually present that information or to a specific group you might have limited time workers they don't have the opportunity to perhaps be off the like on break for too long you just have to work very quickly sometimes and I think being prepared for that and of course the changing landscape is as always important so oehs is kind of like a field where you need to be able to think on the Fly communicate well and especially learn as you go I'd say so in some cases yes um because sometimes you really don't know what you're expecting consider depending on what you're trying to do what you're going out their conduct maybe if you're going out to measure the exposure levels at a specific like workplace and or assess the hazards and another there's could be very differences even if it's the same occupation you might not necessarily see the same hazard s or see there just might be very different circumstances that you're encountering and it's important to be flexible and adaptable and kind of addressing those that's awesome W okay another question I have for you is um what would you say is like the hardest lesson that you learned in your time starting out with oehs and like what or that okay the lesson that you that was the hardest to learn and you wish that you could pass on to new professionals lesson that was hardest to learn I think for me is just as hopeful and optimistic as we often are about you know making like oh like say we identified something of concern like there's a risk associated with some exposure something Etc and um you know you validate it and all that like it's backed by all this other literature and things like that but just understanding how slowly some things move and just I think just being realistic at the end of the day like as hopeful we are about and oftentimes you will be successful in making um potential like for example recently I know individuals at Berkeley were very were pretty involved in spearheading new silicosis standards which was a big emerging issue among uh workers that were cutting these like marble tops Etc being exposed to all the silicone Dusk and dying of lung cancer is a pretty big pressing issue and they were able to through research and studies able to help um influence this new standard that was put in place but often times that's not always going to be the case you're not always going to necessarily see such a quick turnaround of um actual action like tangible action and prevention methods being put in place but that shouldn't discourage you by any means I think if anything it really should motivate you to continue pressing forward and really keep doing the work that you're doing to continue to contribute and make a difference and hopefully overall improve um Community Health that's awesome I respect that I feel like it takes a different kind of level of mental determination to be able to push through all those like like that what you just mentioned to get keep going on your like passion your project yeah wow awesome um is there anything else that you wanted to say that you might have forgotten to mention earlier no I think we we covered it all for the most part yeah awesome I mean speaking of communication I feel like you were very you were answering questions before I could even like ask you them you were giving me very good answers thank you very much thank you for having me asking great questions um I had a great time talking with you Kevin and yeah anything else last words to say no it was my pleasure thanks again Joan appreciate it okay I hope you have a great rest of your day thank you you too thank you all right bye bye bye