Do The Change: Challenging and Reimagining OEHS
This podcast focuses on highlighting upcoming leaders in their fields and how they got to where they are today with a special focus on the field of Occupational Health and Environmental Health Sciences & Health Equity. So we are going to be talking about all the hills and valleys of their journeys and get some insight into non-traditional paths into the field. Sponsored by the Northern California Education and Research Center for Occupational and Environmental Health at the University of California Berkeley, San Francisco, and Davis.
Do The Change: Challenging and Reimagining OEHS
Do the Change with Simon Camponuri (Part 2)
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Join us for Part 2 of our conversation with Simon Camponuri! Discover his untraditional journey from premed student, to wildlife researcher, and finally to Valley Fever researcher, and explore how his drive to explore his various passions led him to a field he feels fulfilled in.
See full transcript here: www.coeh.berkeley.edu/do-change-simon-camponuri
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to part two of our conversation with our amazing speaker on the Do the Change podcast. We're going to jump right back into the conversation. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Instagram at Do the Change podcast. Let me ask you another question. It's like slightly a bit of a change from what we were talking about.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Mm-hmm
JOANNE TEH:So could you share a personal story of a significant challenge or setback you faced in your career and how you managed to overcome it?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. That's a good question. I think, I guess let's keep-- this is a valid example. I think, so yeah, Valley fever is somewhat of a, I mean, somewhat rare disease. It's more prominent in the very endemic regions. But I think one of the biggest challenges that I've faced is that there aren't great interventions against Valley fever. And like think the best thing is for people to wear N95 masks to prevent spore inhalation. But I think we saw with COVID, it's hard to get people to wear masks. And even for, you know, COVID, where it's like a disease that is infecting a lot of people, for a rarer disease, it's even harder to get people to wear masks. And particularly, I think, outdoor workers where it's hot and you don't want to wear a mask, which I completely understand, but that is our best prevention measure. And other than that, there's some things you can do, like it's carried in dust. So all the dust suppression measures help. But like wetting the soil, putting tarps down, that kind of thing helped. But it's been hard to I guess, for example, like last year we saw that there was where we expected there to be a big increase in cases, but there was only so much we could do. We could, like, warn the public and warn physicians that it's going to be cases, but there was not a ton we could do in terms of actually preventing people rather than just warning them to avoid dust exposure. So there is like a a vaccine in development that they think is hopefully close. But in the meantime, I think, there isn't-- there aren't a lot of ways to prevent people from getting infected. So that's been a challenge. When I'm not necessarily working in a prevention space and developing ways to prevent people, I'm like looking at how climate is influencing disease patterns. And so when I find a result, I can say, OK, well, this is the way the climate is impacting the disease. And this is what we may expect to see in the future or in the next year and the next 20 years. But then What Then how do we prepare to stop that from happening if they're going to be increases? So that's been a challenge.
JOANNE TEH:I see. And it's also sad to see the numbers despite your efforts, right?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, totally. I mean, it is. It's on the rise, and it's we're seeing a lot more cases every year. And so, it's, I guess, last year was an example where we saw a huge spike in cases and despite our efforts of trying to warn people. And maybe there would have been more cases if we didn't do that. But maybe there was also more awareness among physicians. So they were testing more and detecting more cases. So it's a combination of things. And it's hopefully, we're having an impact and at least preventing some people from getting sick.
JOANNE TEH:At this at this point, all you can do is just continue chugging along.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. Or I think, at least I'm trying to work do some work that can be nail down, I think, we don't have a great idea of where people are exposed. So, I think, more work is going into trying to pinpoint points of exposure. And we think there's a lot of people exposed through work. And so understanding what kind of job activities put people at risk and that kind of thing, we can maybe tailor some-- modify those tasks or tailor some interventions to prevent specific tasks, jobs or people from getting infected.
JOANNE TEH:Does this aspect of your research involve going to these people's places of work and asking them, surveying them?
SIMON CAMPONURI:No, no, sadly. No, I think, that would be really great. But there have been a few studies out there, not that I have been on on occupation. There was one that was looking at workers compensation claims where they looked at just among occupational categories, who was filing more claims for Valley fever. And that was, I think, pretty high amongst construction workers and agricultural workers and oil and gas workers was pretty high, which were all occupations that I would think would be high. So that tracks. And then there was an effort from some folks at UC Davis who went to an agricultural site and were looking at specifically what activities those workers were doing and then which ones got sick and which ones didn't or got Valley fever. And their results made a lot of sense. They found that the workers who were actually digging in the soil and they were working with root and bulb vegetables had a higher risk of infection. And then people who were doing leaf pruning from trees had a lower risk, which makes sense if they're farther away from the ground and dust than they would have a lower risk. But from what I've seen, there's only been that one effort to look at specific occupational tasks.
JOANNE TEH:I see. I see. So the field is ever growing?[LAUGHS]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, there's lots more that needs to be done.
JOANNE TEH:In that case, let me ask you another question that kind of turns away from what we currently talking about, unless you have more, you'd like to--[INTERPOSING VOICES] So, what is one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you were starting your journey in occupational and environmental health?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Oh, boy.[LAUGHTER] Some advice... I would've given myself so much advice.[LAUGHTER] I think something that I-- one of my lab mates recently told me that-- I really resonated with me and I think, I don't know, I've been repeating it a lot recently. And I would have repeated it to myself back then, too. She said that her, I guess, way of operating in terms of projects she wants to work on is that she does the things that set her soul on fire. And I really liked that because I think it doesn't necessarily need to be a giant fire or, I think it can be the range of just a small flame to a conflagration. But [INAUDIBLE], but I think, things that excite you or things that make you want to work and want to be out there and doing the work and motivate you, I guess, is similar to it. But I would tell myself to pursue the things that set my soul on fire.
JOANNE TEH:That's awesome. And that's actually how you found the field in the first place, going back to--
SIMON CAMPONURI:True, maybe I didn't need to tell myself that. I already was doing that. But--[LAUGHTER]
JOANNE TEH:Yeah, you should give your undergraduate self a little bit more credit for that.[LAUGHTER]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. I guess I would also think tell myself that it's really important to have things that bring fulfillment outside of school and research to be a more balanced person as a whole. I think that, I don't know, the Berkeley undergraduate experience maybe breeds a lot of people who are workaholics and feel they need to work all the time and compete. And I think that can have the impact of putting a lot of your self-worth on how you perform academically or in your career. But I think that it's super important to have lots of things outside of school that bring you fulfillment so that when you hit a setback in one part of your life that there are other parts that are there to race that or cushion that setback.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm. That's awesome advice. I think that's a very pertinent topic for Berkeley undergrads.
SIMON CAMPONURI:I mean, I think, I was not very good about it back then. I think I've gotten a lot better.
JOANNE TEH:What changes did you implement in your life to improve at that?
SIMON CAMPONURI:I think maybe it's just been a gradual change. I think, prioritizing I don't know, I think, personally, I like to run. And so I have made running a priority at some times and just like staying healthy and active. And that's done wonders for my mental health and also just to have something that I care about that's not school. And so if I get injured from running, then I can race that kind of setback with spending more time working on research or other things that kind of vice versa. But also, I think, having a good community and friends and a support system is Important and I think is also something that takes work, I guess. Maybe it doesn't seem like that, but it's like, think that you can put more effort into you, the general you I guess. You can put more or less effort into cultivating community and friendships and things. And so balancing that with everything else is something that I've tried to do a better job with.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm That's advice I should take to myself.[LAUGHTER] In that case, is there-- so since we just did advice for balancing your own life versus academic life, do you have any advice for those who are entering the professional field?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Like the EHS--
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm
SIMON CAMPONURI:--and health field? It's a good question. I mean, it's tough because it's such a big deal and such an interdisciplinary field where folks are working on such different things. I think that's, well, there are so many things, so many different aspects to this question. I think that it's important, I don't know, I guess a couple of things. I think it's important to stay connected to the your, I guess, the experience of the thing you're working on, like the people who, in my case, like the stories of the people who are getting Valley fever and how their lives were impacted. I think, in my case, it's I do a lot of data analysis and I'm in the lab. And I think it could be easy to forget that, like, these numbers are people. And I think it's really important to stay connected to that. And it's also my motivation for to keep doing what you're doing because it is important. It does impact these people's lives, and you can have an impact on their life. I think also, I think, it's important to-- I guess, generally, this maybe goes beyond just our field, but it's really important to have a growth mindset. I think that's everyone is always growing and can be better. And as like, there's always going to be somebody in the world who knows more about something than you. And so having that understanding of that and being open to making mistakes and growing and doing better is really important.
JOANNE TEH:Seems like a key theme is like forgiving yourself for not having the most knowledge in the field or the best academic performance and making sure you have other things to fulfill yourself in ways that academic or professional field cannot.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, I guess so.
JOANNE TEH:Those are all good mental health caring tips.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. Be nice to yourself.
JOANNE TEH:[LAUGHS] Yeah.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Lift each other up.
JOANNE TEH:Easy advice to, like, forget.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. I think maybe. I don't know. I'm sure some people are better, but--
JOANNE TEH:That's true. That's true.
SIMON CAMPONURI:It fits in with what I was just saying.
JOANNE TEH:[LAUGHS] Yeah, it does. So then I guess another question for new professionals, which would be or sorry, let me ask you, in your opinion, what are some of the key skills or qualities that you think are required to succeed in your field?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Qualities or skills? I mean, I think, that's-- what I do is very quantitative. And so I think that knowing, like having quantitative skills and coding skills are important things. That said, that's just me. And I think there are a lot of people in the like environmental health sciences who do things that are less quantitative, and so those skills maybe aren't as necessary. So, I guess, it really depends on what you're doing. And the skills that you that are important are going to vary so much based on your specific fields. And you'll develop those over time. I think that's, those are maybe the like hard skills. I think there are a lot of soft skills that are important, like the growth mindset, I guess, which I mentioned. And just like being empathetic is a soft skill that is not always there in the academic world. And I think, especially when you work on something that's health related, I think, it's really good to have empathy for others, in particular those infected by what you're working on.
JOANNE TEH:That's true. I also feel-- correct me if you think differently, but I feel like those people who are already inclined to have certain skills and certain qualities will naturally find their way to a role that takes advantage of those skills and qualities.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, definitely, definitely. I will say actually one thing, I think, a good skill that I've seen his or that is important is science communication.
JOANNE TEH:Oh, yes.
SIMON CAMPONURI:That is something that I am like practicing and trying to work on. But being able to communicate your results effectively is something that can be really challenging. And in a way, I think communicating-- knowing how to make things resonate and understandable and impactful, but also kind of concise, I think, is really important and can be the difference between somebody listening to you talk about your research and forgetting it instantly or remembering what you do and why it's important and what's going on. So I think science communication.
JOANNE TEH:That's a good one. That's one that's, I think, as for me, I'm just starting out my own scientific professional career. That seems to be like the key one that all my mentors are telling me to work on the most, work on first.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, it's like a ever progressing progress I think or process. I think I'm still working on it. I think a lot of people I know are still working on it. So it's to continue to improve.
JOANNE TEH:[LAUGHS] So you've mentioned a lot of times of all the different skills and things that you're currently working towards. Do you have-- also I wanted to ask you if you have any large goals that you're currently working on now, any ultimate goal?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Ultimate goal in terms of, I guess, like research or?
JOANNE TEH:Anything, maybe even not an ultimate goal, like a medium goal.[LAUGHTER]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Wow. Big goals. I think, wow, ultimate goal. I think there are so many like small goals that we work towards every day. And even if those are medium sized, they are research projects that I'm working on that I'm excited about and are medium goals of mine. But I guess in terms of big, big goals, I really, I think, a big goal of mine is to have an impact, I guess, [LAUGHS] which maybe sounds like everyone's goal.
JOANNE TEH:No. Not at all. Not at all.
SIMON CAMPONURI:But I think sometimes it's-- I think, sometimes working in academia you're removed from the impact a bit. And you work on papers that get published, and it's hard to-- maybe they do have an impact, but it's you're many steps removed from that impact where, I think, I would hope in that case that I'm having an impact. But I would like to do some research that is more directly impactful maybe and then experience that that is impacting people and hopefully improving their life. So, I think, a lot of my goals, I think are related to like other people in my, in my life. I feel that I enjoy-- I get a lot of fulfillment and gratitude or fulfilment out of supporting other people. And sometimes I'm more excited to help with other people's projects than work on my projects.[LAUGHTER] So I want to see them succeed is a goal of mine.
JOANNE TEH:That's awesome. That's really wholesome.[LAUGHS] I think this might be an occupational hazard of being in public health.[LAUGHTER]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. Yeah. That's a good thing, though. Maybe not a hazard.
JOANNE TEH:Yeah, it's a occupational benefit.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah.
JOANNE TEH:Work bonus. Let me see. I'm trying to think of any other questions I want to ask you that I might have forgotten earlier. Do you have anything that you want to say that you forgot earlier?
SIMON CAMPONURI:I guess as if this is a venue for public awareness about Valley fever, we think that there are going to be a lot of cases again. We saw a really wet winter this past winter in California. And so we think that there will be a dry summer. And so we're expecting to see a lot of cases in the fall. So people in California who are listening, be aware of dust exposure this summer and fall. Try to limit your exposure to soil and dust.
JOANNE TEH:How does this impact people who aren't working with soil and dust on a regular basis? Will it still impact the regular person you think?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah. So not every case is acquired from your occupation. And actually, I think, I don't know how many cases are from occupational activities. But there are a lot of cases of people just like living in areas where it's dusty and getting sick. And so everyone is at risk. There are stories of people driving down I-5 through California and their windows were up, but they're like, this dust came in through the vents, and they got sick. So it's--
JOANNE TEH:That's crazy.
SIMON CAMPONURI:--happened in so many different ways. So you just want to limit your dust exposure. Make sure you're driving through a dust storm, close the recirculation bar in your car.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm. What places are most likely to get Valley fever?
SIMON CAMPONURI:So in California-- so cases are really high in Arizona and California. Particularly in California in [AUDIO OUT] steep rise in cases outside of that area. So those are areas that are still risky, but we're seeing increases along the Coast. So like, San Luis Obispo County and Monterey County Northern in the Central Valley where Sacramento is and those counties around there. So it's expanding, so.
JOANNE TEH:That's scary.[LAUGHTER]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yes. Hopefully we can do something about it.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm. So those who are living in those cities, like watch out for dust. Watch out for dirt.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Careful about dust.
JOANNE TEH:When it's windy, would you say like there's a higher incidence?
SIMON CAMPONURI:We don't know for sure research wise, but there was a recent study from Arizona that found that on windy days, there was they found the fungus in the air more often. And so we think that wind is probably important, I would guess, because typically with higher winds, there's more dust. So that would be just dust is the main thing we worry about. But also if are directly in the soil, too, are really at high risk.
JOANNE TEH:I see. PSA to those out there. Spread the word to your friends.[LAUGHS]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Carefyl.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm. In that case, I think, I'm out of questions for you. And you got in your last thoughts.
SIMON CAMPONURI:I think so.
JOANNE TEH:[LAUGHS] I found your advice really helpful. I'm going to have to-- I'm going to have to sit down and ponder those things that you said about having another hobby to find fulfillment when academic things don't fulfill me. I think I got to start working on that.[LAUGHTER]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Well, it's never too late.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm. I can even spread this to my roommates, to all my pre-med friends.[LAUGHTER]
SIMON CAMPONURI:I did notice, actually, one question that you had sent me was about where I see the field going or something about how like we can improve the field. And I thnk like-- I think, we don't have great collection of occupation data. I think we don't really know much about what occupations people work. I think, there are so many variables that we consider in terms of like the social determinants of health, like, your socioeconomic status or your race ethnicity experience, like, so many things that are routinely collected. If you go to the doctor, you note these things down. But occupation is such a big determinant of health, not just Valley fever, but so many other things because you spend so much of your time working in your life. So we don't know. We don't have great collection of that data. So I feel like we need more systematic collection. Personally, it should be a part of the medical record. You should just write down what the person does for a living, and then there just be better data. And we'd have a better understanding of like what people are at risk for.
JOANNE TEH:It's really interesting. I've never thought about that before, but I totally agree.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Thanks. I don't know. It would be so great. I'm sure there's so many administrative barriers to bureaucracy to getting occupation as a required thing in health records, but it would be great. And I think we could learn a lot and improve health.
JOANNE TEH:Do you think the main way would just be through health records or like, where else? How would you like propose collecting this data? And where would it be stored?
SIMON CAMPONURI:I mean, I think, personally, I think, health records would be great. I'm sure you would undercount people who don't have health insurance or don't seek care. And it would be great to get occupation data on everyone, but that means maybe unrealistic. I mean, we do do it through the census, but the census has like very specific occupational categories that you have to put yourself in that maybe don't represent, like, I don't know if I was like in a-- I would probably put something like professional or technical occupations or maybe, if so, like education. But with either of those specifications, you're not going to know that I'm like out sampling the soil, and I'm at risk for Valley fever.
JOANNE TEH:That's true.
SIMON CAMPONURI:It's like a larger group that can get conflated. So I feel like medical records would be the best way to do it. But I don't know, If there's someone out there with better ideas, I'm very open to hearing it.
JOANNE TEH:And that opened the doors for a lot more like population research. That's a good idea. Cool. So that's a possible hopeful future advancement for OEHS?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, that would be amazing. And everybody in the occupational health world would love that. It's just hard to make happen.
JOANNE TEH:Mm-hmm. Hopefully we see it in our lifetime. We'll see.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, I hope so.
JOANNE TEH:Well, I really enjoyed talking to you, Simon.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Thanks. Likewise.
JOANNE TEH:I think this episode was full of a lot of good advice, especially to people like me. That's awesome.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Well, I hope that it resonates with people out there. And I'm just one person. So ask other people for advice, too, if mine doesn't resonate with you, but yeah.
JOANNE TEH:What was the phrase that your friend said to you earlier? Do what, lights your heart on fire?
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, do the things that set your soul on fire.
JOANNE TEH:Set your soul on fire, that's better.[LAUGHS] Yes. I think that's like the phrase for this episode.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Yeah, if there's one take away, it should be.
JOANNE TEH:Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Simon.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Thank you.
JOANNE TEH:I had a great time talking to you. And I wish you luck in all your Valley fever research.
SIMON CAMPONURI:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I look forward listening to future episodes with some other folks.
JOANNE TEH:Thank you. Thank you. In that case, thank you. I'll talk to you hopefully soon.[LAUGHS]
SIMON CAMPONURI:Sounds good. Thanks.
JOANNE TEH:Thank you. Goodbye