Do The Change: Challenging and Reimagining OEHS

Do the Change: Reimagining OEHS with Mulika Musyimi, MPH (Part 1)

• Center for Occupational and Environmental Health (COEH) • Season 2 • Episode 11

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Dive into Episode 11 with Mulika Musyimi, a dedicated advocate in the fields of public health and global health. Mulika’s global perspective includes his role as a Human Rights Fellow at Sanergy in Nairobi, Kenya, where he contributed to the WASH sector (Water, Sanitation, and Hygiene). Join us for this illuminating conversation with Mulika Musyimi as we delve into his personal journey in public health, the power of mentorship, the role of community colleges, and the importance and expansiveness of diversity.

See full transcript here: https://www.coeh.berkeley.edu/do-change-mulika-musyimi

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Hi everyone, welcome to the Do the Change podcast, where we're challenging you to reimagine OEHS. And so in this podcast we focus on highlighting some leaders in their field and how they got to where they are today with a special focus on the field of Occupational Health and Environmental Sciences, but as always we dip into other topics as well and so we're going to be talking about the Hills and Valleys of our speakers journeys, get some insight into non-traditional paths into the field. And so my name is Tyra Parrish, I am a recent graduate from the MPH program here at Cal and our guest speaker for this episode is Mulika Musyimi.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Wooooo!

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

So Mulika is originally from Kilifi which is a small town in the coast providence of Kenya and he is the son of farmers, cooks, teachers, tailors, hotel workers, and storytellers, and he wants to acknowledge them and their impact because without them there wouldn't be a story thread featuring him. In addition to having various relatives experience health challenges throughout his life, there was also realization that as a sub-Saharan African migrant living in a U.S context there was now this different exposure perspective of seeing and making sense of the surroundings. The markedly poor overall health outcomes experienced by black communities on the continent and in the diaspora is dire and needs addressing particularly because of the sum of stressors that the social determinates of health place on an individual, a family, and a community. In short these were some of his motivators in pursuing his MPH in Global Environmental Health, so welcome Mulika, so happy to have you.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Thank you so so much Tyra, it is so happy to be had. Thank you for your time.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes. Okay so before we start with the podcast, we're going to start with a check in question. So the check in question is - describe a family or individual tradition that holds a special place in your heart.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

This is, this is tough because I come from a big family-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

So it is hard to pick just one member but if it was one tradition, which I think that will bring a lot of these characters-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Into the foreground, is our grandfather used to be a choir master in church.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Oh cool.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And when we lived together, because both he and my grandmother lived with us for a while, they would gather all of us after dinner and we would sing or he would conduct us singing Kamba songs every single night before we prayed and went to bed. So this is one of those memories that I remember as a kid because it was just the older folk plus us kids with my grandfather doing his thing.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Oh I love that, that's so cute. I love that, that's so cute.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

It's a story I haven't shared much-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

But it's a-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Oh, that's so cute. Okay, my tradition, or I guess family tradition that we would do is every Christmas or just even winter time, since I don't even remember how old we were, but we watched Polar Express, the same movie. I love Polar Express.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

And when we were kids we used to make the hot chocolate, like oooh hot chocolate.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yeah.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Like we literally would have it and like be watching that part and so even now like, last Christmas I was like, we're watching Polar Express, right? Like there's something about having something where it happens every time, anyways-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I'm curious, real quick.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I guess I'm the one-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Asking a quick question.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Why Polar Express of all the films, I'm just curious?

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

I think the first time we watched it there was something about it that we all loved.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Wow.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

And I think too, that one of the main characters is like a black girl and that was super cool to see, and she was the one who like made sure to include the other kid, like it was just cool.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Wow.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

She was the one who was keeping those those kids together because they were running around acting crazy and she was like sit down. There was just something about it and I think the music was good, the storyline was good.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Okay.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah and it was just one of those like, I don't know, I actually don't know what it is about it, but every time I watch it, it like, I pretend like it's brand new. I'm like oh-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Wow. Guess who's about to watch Polar Express?

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

I love it.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I have to remember this weekend, I am.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes, it's so good. But yeah it's definitely like a-yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

[Unintelligible]

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Let me know what you think because it definitely can be, it's definitely a little corny. But it's like cute, I don't know.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

There's no corny here.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah, yeah. All righty so we're going to jump into the first question, which is walk us through how you got to the field of Public Health and particularly what drew you into Environmental health?

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

That's a- again another good question in the sense that I feel like I am one of those humans and lifelong students who took many paths to get to where they are. So for me it was never direct, and I feel like a handful of things happened in my life that sparked that interest. One of them was growing up in a single parent home. In Kenya, and my mother and my dad when my dad was still alive, lived in a small rural town so once he passed away my mom needed to move in order to get better, better work in the city so I guess my life period in Kenya was partly rural, partly city, but then fast forward to me migrating to the US and our grandmother developing memory loss and later became Alzheimer's, I- that was those were some breadcrumbs that I guess were getting laid all throughout my life. I think work at the International Rescue committee which is a refugee resettlement agency headquartered in New York, but has like different offices in the United States, also introduced me to facets of you know Refugee and migrant health.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Then COVID also happened, and also that contributed to I guess you know the bigger conversation. So for me it was either directly through just watching my mom living through just the premature death of a parent as a result of like a heart attack. An elderly grandparent who had, was responsible for raising me but also had Alzheimer's, a pandemic, and also just like experiences as a volunteer and also as an interpreter at the International Rescue committee were all reasons why I ended up where I did.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. Well one, thank you for sharing that with us because I know that, that, yeah, just thank you, thank you for sharing like how you got there or how you got into public health. And so my follow-up question would be what drew you to the specific area of like Global Environmental Health once you realized, okay public health is for me, and then how did that kind of get you to Berkeley?

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yeah, so my undergrad degree at San Diego State.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Go Aztecs.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Woo!

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Love the Bears, but also Aztecs first.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Was environmental geography and sustainability so I- in terms of like the environmental side of the program I think that was already steeped just in undergrad and I feel so strongly about just like the, the foundations that were laid for me in undergrad just because it was the first big school that I'd ever attended in my whole life. It was also the program was unique in the sense that I think it had professors who had just this way about how they viewed Academia, how they had also driven their own careers in them becoming professors amongst all the other things that they did. And I think it's just like this sense of possibility I think they've bestowed on all of us as students that yes, you can get a geography degree, but a geography degree is more than just maps, you know?

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

It's just so much more than just like you know the title of the degree and I think it was just like those, those moments you know that I was getting to connect with a handful of them, that I think sparked this sense of like I think wonder and possibility, because yes, I probably got into sustainability and environmental geography just because I, I grew up in a different place-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And there was always a sense of wonder about what lies outside my postal code, my ZIP code, my-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

But I feel like it was just like this other way of seeing my world and impacting my world through, through learning and through Academia and I think that made me realize that I could do something bigger then once, once the talk and the conversation of Public Health started to feel a little bit more real that came from a mentor who had, who I still look up to to this day, he attends, he's a PhD student at UCSB. And that's the University of California, Santa Barbara and he's a sociology student and he was a valedictorian at SDSU and I think it's watching his journey and him just the ability of him being a storyteller for himself, for his community, I think allowed me to to look at this evolving interest in public health and feel that I could also contribute to it in my own unique way.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I attended a workshop that UC Berkeley was holding for prospective students and I remember watching a student and I'm gonna give her a shout out, her name is Lena Musoka, and she was a year ahead of me and she was just talking about just how she ended up at Berkeley Public Health. She also happened to be a migrant as well from a part of the world that I was also from. So I think just all these parallels for me were just confirming that, that I needed to pursue a global environmental health degree.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And if not at Berkeley just, somewhere else, so.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. Well, dang, you answered my next question which was like any mentors and role models, you just shout out, you just shouted somebody out, period. Because I mean like it's it's hard-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I have so many [Unintelligible].

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Right, right.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

No, no, please, please, please.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

No I was gonna say, shout them out like if there's anyone else that's been like-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Shout them out.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. Like in your journey to and through public health-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Oh my god. Yes, yes. I will reach back as far back as Community College, because I-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I'm a product of community college and if it was not for those foundational roots when I was still very very young and a very new migrant in a very new society, attending U.S schools, I think I would not be where I am today, so I want to shout out, give a shout out to just my academic advisors in junior college in Reno, Nevada. They saw me and they were able to like plant all these seeds. I want to shout out to my professors there, my professors at SDSU, and Dr. Costello, Dr. Katie. Like I have, like I'm spacing out on words right now.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah, its a list. Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

But just like-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

No it's okay.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And just like every

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Every internship they they dropped on my lap.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

They were willing to write letters of recommendations for me on just every single one of them. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them and fast forward then once I got accepted to UC Berkeley and-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

An ever-present mentor is Dr. Jay Graham and I want to give him like a huge shout out right now because the man has calmed me down.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And he has helped me see the world beyond, beyond school work.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. I will second that Jay is, he was an anchor and still is anchor for a lot of our class, the classes before and the classes in the future. It's really hard to explain Jay's impact until you meet him and when you meet him you get it. Like he was an anchor for people who weren't even in our department, like they knew him. So definitely shout out to Jay and also I want to highlight what you said about coming from a community college, because I feel that there's still kind of this belief that, or maybe misunderstanding of how impactful going to a community college is before like transitioning into a four-year. And so I want to take space one to highlight for folks who are listening and are thinking about options to go to school that Community College is a fantastic option in your pathway of education of any form, or at any level you wish to reach for.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

And as someone who, I've taken Community College that's helped me kind of like in regards to my degree, not stress. I loved Community College a lot better especially when you go to big UC schools it's easier to connect with faculty-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

And staff at a community college versus school, big schools like any school in the UC system. So I want to uplift that because that's, Community College I'm pro. I'm always pro.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Thank you for that Tyra-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And I think for me honestly that came later to be quite honest because I feel like initially maybe I, just out of my youth and maybe my lack of experience I didn't know better and I thought initially that maybe I was going to a lesser institution.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Now that I look back I- that is not the case.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. No but that's- yeah but I'll acknowledge that was something I had to grow into as well. Like I was totally on the like, don't- like, viewing colleges as lesser than-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Comparatively, when really that it's all education at any form and any level and no one is better than someone else just based off the university you go to, which I understand attending and graduating from UC Berkeley. I- we come from a very like privileged position to be like well, Berkeley prestigious schools don't mean anything, but I genuinely mean that like no matter where you go, whether you go to Berkeley or whether you go to any other university, education is education at the end of the day.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

By any means, by any means so.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes, so now we're going to shift into what you are currently doing now, so you already mentioned it but so before we talk about your human rights Fellowship that you are still in right now, so cool, can you talk about your present work as an interpreter facilitator at the International Rescue Committee in San Diego? And then can you also define the definition between translator and interpreter because they're two different things.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yeah, absolutely. First before I forget just-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I just want to call out or shout out to Trevor Aldridge he is my mentor from UCSB.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And I just want to mention because without Trevor I would not know how to write a statement of purpose.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Oh my goodness.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I'm gonna give him that space and that acknowledgment because without him as a mentor-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I really probably wouldn't even have finished writing my statement of purpose. Alright. To answer this question.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Shout out Trevor. No. Shout out Trevor. I love that.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Shout out to Trevor. So, to answer this question, the difference between an interpreter and a facilitator is simply is that a facilitator is a person who makes a process-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Easy within an organization so-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

In the roles that I was able to play this part at the International Rescue committee that was either as a as a co-ESL teacher or a co-CPR teacher.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Got you.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Core DMV test taker, just because these are situations where migrants and refugees because of just like the way things are worded or just like situational just situational processes that might be just harder.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Even English speaking person are hard.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

So, just being the facilitator in those settings and those contexts just make it a lot more easier.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Interpreters, on the other hand work with oral and sign languages translators who deal with like written language-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And as an interpreter, like you're often translating language on the fly and like in the context of like real conversation, so again that was a hat that I also wore and-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Sometimes like accompanying like one of our clients to a doctor's visit. Again, those sometimes are happening on the fly and just feeling capable to to be able to grasp what the client is trying to communicate aptly and also making sure that the doctor understands exactly what the client is trying to say. Like those were the things that I had to really work with sometimes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yep. And I want to add on to what you said in regards to between like a translator and an interpreter only because I feel that sometimes in I'll say, I'll speak to like healthcare settings or even just settings where like, let's say like a team setting where someone knows that someone there is like multilingual. Being a translator and being an interpreter like you said two different things where you're having to- interpreters more so interpret to the context of the conversation and so you're literally having to actively like translate whatever you're hearing and then communicate that in a way in which that group understands and the other group or whatever groups understand and translating is just you remove the context and these are the things I'm seeing or hearing or reading and I'm just writing it like as is without putting any context. Not, I wouldn't say putting any context but it's kind of like you said where it's like words. You're just trans- you're simply translating it while interpreting is kind of like in the context of a hospital setting or in a doctor's space you may have to interpret it. Like, do you understand like your rights in this conversation-

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Or in this space and that, that doesn't mean that one is harder than the other it's just a different approach.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

And so that's, that's why sometimes I- and I had to learn this because someone told me where they've had to advocate for themselves to get pay that is equal to that of an interpreter and not a translator because of the labor that comes with that. But they just assume oh you speak xyz language, just translate it and it's just like. Anyway, so that's the reason I wanted to ask one to highlight from someone's personal experience of being an interpreter and then highlighting the synthesis for folks who are maybe in that space or being asked to translate or interpret but not being fairly compensated please advocate for yourself. And there's also I think a certification you can get as an interpreter.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yeah.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

As well, so.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And I feel like for me one thing that becomes more and more clear in this work is just how hard the process-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Even in one's comfortable home and and I'm gonna say comfortable right now actually with quotations, quotation marks because and maybe what I should have said is the process of coming from a setting in a context that one is familiar with.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Right.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And that can be a country, a language, a region, or space and moving into a completely different context in this case the United States and trying one to assimilate and two coping with every other thing that is bombarding one as a newcomer and I think for me that is, as I go through the process of interpreting is I just want to give a shout out to you know our clients because it is not easy.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

And constantly constantly like having to navigate these very difficult, hard spaces where sometimes individuals can on this other side can get very impatient with the process, and just like the process is not easy it's not meant, it's not easy for native English speakers so it's even twice if not harder-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

You know, English is not their first language so again, I sit back in awe but I also want to just give space to just like these amazing individuals that go through traumatic experiences most of the time to just create new homes and just-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Right. Well I also want to uplift you for being a part of making that process not as challenging as it's going to be, because that's amazing and so now I want to transition into your experience as a human rights fellow at, saying this right Sanergy?

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Sanergy. Exactly.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Sanergy, cool, collaborative in Nairobi, Kenya. So how was that?

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Eye opening, instructive, humbling, and the reason why I choose these three words is because going into going through this space, even when I was selected which as- even when I was selected as a fellow to participate in this Fellowship I knew I was also coming in very green in the sense that I had not truly worked in a traditional water and sanitation and hygiene space.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

so I knew I was coming in with a lot of learning that I needed to do but the fact that one they gave me an opportunity, I purposed to make it as immersive and as enriching as far as new knowledge is concerned as anyone could possibly make it to be in a period of three months. And I think also for me it was it was important for me to be in a space where like meaningful wash work happens because this is the type of work that I've professed that I want to do. And just like being in a context where like 60 percent of people that live in Nairobi which is the capital city of Kenya don't have access to, to easy accessible sanitation in in the traditional way or at least in the way where we imagine it-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Right.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

In the context of like Oakland or like San Francisco and that was really really eye-opening because when you think of like 60 percent of a ity's population is not using a sanitation modality that you and I can say, oh yeah like I flushed it and it went somewhere.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Right.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Again, for me that was, it was important to see that type of work, it was important to see where the work happens particularly like in the informal settlements that it seeks to serve and also uplift. Two it was also addressing a gap that is a right that is provided within the Kenyan Constitution, that says every Kenyan should have right to this this service. But again having lived in that context prior to me migrating to the US and also going back to see that it hasn't changed-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Was also instructive. Three, the fact that also government or the systems of government have also been devolved in the sense that we do have a national government that sets laws and sets policies but again the county governments also do governance separate from the national government so the fact that the two are decoupled, so whatever might be happening in the national, federal level might not be the exact story-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

happening at the county governments, so it was also really nice to be exposed to, because the Constitution changed when I was away.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Oh.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

So this is the 10th year that the constitution has actually been in operation so I think also just like seeing the mechanics of like these big visions that were set up like in 2010 and actually now 10 years later people can say like this is working, this is not working I think was also instructive for me and also just humbling, like being in this spaces where sometimes I just needed to listen.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. And I really like, I think one only because I know like the background extent of the, when you got the fellowship, I just want to highlight that like from what I don't know about Mulika this was literally exactly what he asked for, manifested in his life and so one this is my first time hearing about what happened during his fellowship and it's always just, it is amazing one to see like it's amazing to hear that not only you're doing global work but that you're able to do global work back like, back in your home country and to still be around family but then also I really loved how you shared that even in your time in the US and then coming back, how it had changed so then you're kind of re-in a space of learning also in your home community which is really cool. Yeah, so I just really enjoyed hearing that and I want to uplift that I'm so happy that you had a good time up there.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Thank you, thank you.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

It was, it was, and it was also challenging as well.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Because I think also one thing I- I'm also learning is it's easy for me to call out just the good times and the successes but I think for this conversation of ours to be also very authentic,

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

I also want to call out that it was also hard because-

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Like having not known what it means to to be a team member in a functioning group already, right? Like you- I was the new member showing up in a team that had already been working on a few projects and also just trying to find where I truly fit and where I can contribute the most was challenging at times.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

So two, in as much as I am culturally Kenyan I've also been removed.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yes.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

For a couple years. So I think it's also trying to re-establish, you know what my identity is, going back to my culture and also doing that in a work setting, was also a little bit difficult. Three, there were just things also within my goals that I had set out, that I'd mentioned in my essay before I got accepted and also just goals to keep myself on track, some of those goals were not met. So just like knowing how to pivot or communicate them.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Those were almost a difficult moment so I think also acknowledging that in this podcast session I think is also important. I don't want to just highlight the fact that it was all good.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Yeah. And you know what, that's so real because, this is a side note y'all, me and Mulika went to this really great meeting on it's called decolonizing global health I believe?

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes. Madhu Pai.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

And yes, and I actually can't remember what the speakers name was, but he had made a great point about at some point as you go higher up in your education you become a double agent where your hand and your like, your spirit, and like basically your spirit and like let's say like a foot just for lack of better phrasing, like half of you is still with the social kind of advocate version of yourself where you're advocating and fighting for all the things that your community or other communities want and need, then the other half of you is like now a part of the community of which you were fighting against and that's hard and that's kind of like not saying that's what you're going through but it's like that experience of like you at some point were getting removed from what was happening in your home country and coming back there was like oh shoot, like this is a new environment I have to learn. And so that's real and that's kind of an experience that I want to highlight as like, like it's it's a very interesting feeling of feeling like a double agent.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Yes.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

Like, like I'm now slowly becoming a part of the community that I'm kind of like eh about but also socially aware of like okay now I need to be more cognizant of like how removed I am and how do I stay connected and like how do I step back and allow other voices to be heard even though I was previously said voice that needed to be heard. It's just a whole nother, whole other thing.

Mulika Musyimi, MPH:

Only you could have said that the way you said it.

Tyra Parrish, MPH:

No, I got it from you. Okay, so. Hi guys this is Tyra Parrish your host for this episode and we have reached the end of part one of this conversation with this amazing speaker. Don't click out yet because part two of this conversation has already been posted, so go ahead and click over to the next page and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and Spotify page.