Do The Change: Challenging and Reimagining OEHS

Do the Change: Episode 8 - Ashley Smith, MPH (Part 2)

• Center for Occupational and Environmental Health (COEH) • Season 2 • Episode 8

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Join us for part two of our conversation with our newest podcast guest, Ashley Smith, MPH! Ashley is a recent graduate of UC Berkeley's MPH program and has spent the last 3.5 years as a researcher at UCSF, focusing on research projects that examine health disparities. Her projects have included navigation programs for African American men, COVID-19 and housing insecurity, and lung cancer prevention for minority populations. Tune in now to hear her story on how she entered the field, how she utilized her network to expand her experiences, and how she uses her research to make an impact on community health.

See full transcript here: https://www.coeh.berkeley.edu/do-change-ashley-smith-mph

TYRA PARRISH:

Hey y'all, welcome to part two of our conversation with our amazing speaker on the Do the Change podcast, we're going to hop right back into the conversation. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Spotify page, and follow us on Instagram @dothechangepodcast. Yeah I mean girl, I feel like, I feel, well one I'll say like it's the way that you got into kind of going back towards the beginning a little bit, but the way that you got in to UCSF is very interesting. Right? Where it's like you said- and but you know what, so I, maybe, maybe it's just how my mind works. I feel like you you probably came in it with the best attitude in the sense of like you're not seeing the quote-unquote glitz and glam that some people who like live and breathe or people who stay on top of like the best of the best of the best of the best, where you're like going in there with like stars in your eyes. Like "Oh my god, I'm at UCSF..." and you may act in a way that's not genuinely who you are because you're like starstruck of like, I'm here. Which is a very fair assessment because I have been starstruck a couple times, but like I feel like your energy coming in was more so of like, gave you a perspective to maybe see things for what they are, versus like rose, rose-colored glasses.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Mmhmm.

TYRA PARRISH:

And I feel like, it just seems like that team read your energy correctly of like this girl is not like, well I don't want to be here. She's just more so like aware and doing what needs to be done and clearly doing a great job to then basically prep you to take someone else's position, but make sure also that you

were equipped for that. It wasn't like:

oh we're just gonna, we're just gonna you know, upgrade Ashley but really not kind of work her into like the workload or whatever.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Are you familiar with other projects that you would, you would have needed to be familiar with whatever, I don't know. But it just sounds like they were, they were preparing you for your next- which is cool. And then like, then you stayed with them.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Which is awesome and I think like, just for folks just who are listening of that sometimes like you can get in some really cool and some really, positions that you wouldn't otherwise maybe have realized that that position was opening up unless you kind of take a position where you're like I don't know and then you're in there and you're like wait hold on a minute this position's open, this is the one-

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

So, yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that and also just sharing like the work that you're currently doing, which is still like connected to community which I appreciate. And that just seems to be like a life theme maybe. Just from what I know about you, you're very connected to community in some way.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yes. Very much so, very much so.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yes, and I feel like that's one of my favorite things about you.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Thank you.

TYRA PARRISH:

And so to follow up with that, are there any like passion projects you're involved in or have heard of, or kind of stay, kind of connected to in addition to the work that you're doing?

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah. I would probably say staying abreast on what's going on. It's more so rooted in like advocacy work I would say. Staying abreast on what's going on over at the Shipyard. It was, it's funny at the last kind of like assembly that they had over there, kind of like protesting some of the development, I'd seen my old High School teacher, which was super interesting. But I just think that I take such issue with the development of the Shipyard for several reasons, and instead of kind of like taking issue with it, I've been just trying my best to be mindful of when they have like kind of like demonstrations. They have less so, they've been having less of them now that of a majority of the development has like completed construction. But one thing that I find problematic is that one of the most polluted parcels in the Bayview was the parcel that was approved for subsidized housing or low income housing, essentially a lot of the land still has like radioactive material. But some of the most polluted parcels, the most, one of the most polluted parcels of land was the land that was approved for subsidized housing. Do that in itself is just problematic right? We have this idea, if we have this super fun site situated in a predominantly, a predominantly black neighborhood and we have- a solid portion of these homes were were bought prior to the construction even being completed, right? So these are people that are from outside of the Bayview. These are not residents who are taking that have no hist- that have no knowledge of the history of the land, who are kind of taking residence here, so that is something that I've kind of been staying abreast on. Yeah it gets, it's kind of disheartening.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah.

ASHLEY SMITH:

But I think that the only way that you can kind of counteract that kind of feeling, of feeling defeated is just by staying active and being vocal.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah. that's really, that's really all you can do. It sucks. And it's just like, that's, that is like the textbook definition of environmental racism. One, to kind of, one, to kind of, without getting too deep into the history and the story, it's just one. to kind of bring in or, or redevelop land, and prioritize this newly redeveloped land for folks who are not native to the area and then two, to say well okay you guys can come but you guys can only go on the most, like the most dirtiest part of the, of the- like what even is this? Like I just find that so- I take such issue with that. It's like, I don't know but I'm one person I mean all I can do is just show up when I know they're having the assemblies and yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, but I also think that your voice, as someone who grew up in that area, like yes it's one voice, but they're actively pushing your voice and other voices like yours like outside of the area with like this, with what they're doing. I didn't, I literally just found out from what you were sharing that they were developing in, in the Shipyard which is like you said like it to me, it really trips me out because it's, redlining is what pushed communities into that area and then on top of that environmental racism with what the Navy did to that area of dumping toxic stuff and then lying about it. And then the government not correcting it, and then now you're having people re-gentrify the area that y'all push people into that then further push them out. It's very trippy and I was just talking to someone, they were just talking about how there's like now this regentrification of redlined areas that they push communities into to further push them out, which is interesting and it's also just interesting to where it's like the environmental impacts don't go away. Like you're just now putting more people in that space in addition to causing harm to the community that's there and then you're right where it's like it is disheartening, but staying involved and staying on top of it, learning from someone like I just learned from you about what's been going on there, is how you don't forget like what's going on. Which kind of keeps the hope alive in a weird way, where it's like I'm like 'oh no more news more bad news' but like 'oh I'm glad I know' like now. It's like a weird feeling.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, yeah, no for sure.

TYRA PARRISH:

So with that I'm going to transition into Tea Time with Tyra which is kind of we're talking, well the just kind of the more like getting into the nitty-gritty of like, hold on let's think of this more. Yeah so I guess I'll start with just being a black woman in academia, what has your experience been like, just navigating that space. I feel like that's a big question because you have a long journey but wherever that question takes you.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Oh. Great question. Oh, okay so, being a black woman in academia I feel like firsthand something that comes to mind is that I feel like on paper the idea of a minority, you hear the word minority, you hear it often, you see it in publications, you hear it like in a lot of in a lot of different spaces. But I feel like being a black woman in academia first hand, you begin, you feel- I feel like a minority because, in all senses of the of the word, right, is also- okay so there's not many of us right and then like also I feel like as a black woman we kind of approach academic spaces, our lived experience allows us to approach academic spaces a bit differently. So in addition to like lack- the visible lack of representation in academia there's also this for me, this idea of a lack of a line or shared sentiments specifically with things that are problematic, right? I feel like sometimes certain things that go on in academia are very problematic, but because you are a minority in certain spaces for you to speak out or like voice against them, sometimes you can find yourself second guessing things because there's no one necessarily there to be like yeah that is wrong, or yeah I agree with you, I didn't like how that was said, or that is, you know. But without having that, because there's not many of us it's hard for us to find allies in which we say you know what you're not wrong, that was not right and it takes for you to have that lived experience as a black person to even, for that even to just hit like that for you, for it even to hit differently. And I feel like as a black person academic I really kind of feel or understand more so the idea of a m- what a minority is, because there's not a lot of us.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah.

ASHLEY SMITH:

I wish there were, I wish there were but there simply there's not enough of us. There's not enough of us.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, and I really liked how I think that you, I think when you explained how that is just even the way that people react or like respond to different things that happen in academic spaces, I feel like you've perfectly described something that I've experienced, where I'm like I don't know how to put it into words but even if I like, I don't even feel like people saw it in the way that I saw it. And you're right unless it's like another person who looks like you or as it has lived similar experiences as you that you also feel very isolated and a minority in that way, and I remember I had an experience in a class I'm not going to name the person, but an experience in a class where just the way that my question was answered like it struck a nerve in me. And it's just, I feel like I don't know if it's like a black community or person community thing but sometimes the way you say things, like your tone can be real disrespectful. And so I felt kind the pain in my chest where I was like, and I didn't say anything and I was like maybe I'm crazy, because no one else seemed to have an immediate reaction to it. So I kind of gaslit myself into like maybe I was overreacting, and it wasn't until after class, just love her, she walked up to me, a girl in my class walked up to me and said 'are you okay? The way that they said that was really rude' and I literally was like 'I'm not crazy.'

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

'I am not crazy.' And just, it just felt like a very deep affirmation, but if she hadn't, I've never spoken to her, that was the first time she spoke to me. She just walked up to me touched me on my shoulder and was like 'are you okay.' And it's just something like that, but you're right that being a black woman in academia and being a minoritized group on top of that, you don't, you don't always get those like'I see you' or 'yeah that's not cool' or sometimes you get it after the fact and you're like girl, I needed you in that moment, like a week later, like what are you talking about?

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, for sure.

TYRA PARRISH:

But yeah, and it's like unfortunately like the, I feel like the further, I don't say the further up you go because I don't really see it like that, but the more degrees you get I feel like the more isolating that is because-

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Because of all these different additional kind of barriers in place.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah. To- for us to be heard in higher education.

TYRA PARRISH:

For us to be there. ASHLEY SMITH: Yeah, for sure, definitely. And one of those barriers being visible. Like if I don't see a lot of people in that program and we already know what that feeling of being isolated is, why would- you know what I'm saying, where that could also impact you. But-

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, definitely, definitely, yeah,

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah. But you know what? We have to be there so when someone up comes- when someone comes behind us they see us and-

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Gives them you know the motivation to be in those spaces.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah. Because all it takes is it's just that one just like I'm going kind of going back to Nani, you know, I'm sure this is back in what I don't want to date myself, but back in like early like 2005, 2006.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Almost nearly a decade ago or a little under a decade ago. I'm sure I can assume that there weren't you know a lot of minorities in school, school at UCFS to become a pharmacist so the fact that you know she wanted to pay it forward and mentor, and mentor black women as well was like I'll- she'll always have a place in my heart. Nani if you're listening I hope you are doing well.

TYRA PARRISH:

Okay so I do have another question.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Sure.

TYRA PARRISH:

In your experience, where or what are some kind of performative actions you've seen, maybe in the medical field or even Public Health with addressing health disparity, since you have a very strong background in that, and also if you could maybe go back in time and like- what are some tweaks you would add that would maybe make it not as performative and maybe more like genuine and like restorative?

ASHLEY SMITH:

Sure, sure. So I have a really good example of this I would say. I was volunteer- I was doing some volunteer work during undergrad at a community-based organization who kind of works with, who anchors into the public housing projects in San Francisco. So it's kind of like a joint program through like the San Francisco Department of- excuse me, the San Francisco Housing Agency, so SFHA. And they have these organizations in which they kind of come in, community-based organizations, which they kind of come in and they work at the, they work at the site, at the public housing project site, and they do all types of things with the kids, with the youth. They do like programs with them, provide food, etc it's really dope shit that they have- excuse dope things that they have going for the kids and the youth, because that's like the target audience is essentially like probably I'd say probably about 10 to 18.

TYRA PARRISH:

Okay.

ASHLEY SMITH:

So, first hand something I've seen that was problematic is that while they, while these organizations that they were kind of contracted to work through San Francisco Housing Authority to kind of come in and put on like these programs ,these events for these, for the youth. One thing I did find that was happening was during events folks would come in and they would get food or they would stay for like kind of like the giveaways, for the gift cards, movie tickets, etc and they would leave. They wouldn't stay for kind of like the curriculum piece or portion of it or the learning portion of it. And I kind of started finding this a little bit problematic because I'm like dude, they have all these dope programs and events going on for folks but like no one's like staying for that, getting the actual, get the meat and the bones of it because the way they were structured, they would do like curriculum based and then they do the fun so they'll do kind of like a learning piece of it and then they'd like bring out the food, and then bring out like the prizes, like you do a raffle, you can get a gift card, a movie ticket, a scooter, etc, and like folks would just come to get like the gifts and stuff and I found out what the problem was. The problem was that these organizations were coming in and doing assessments of the community without the input of the community. So these were outside folks or organizations with the people who had essentially no lived experience and these were, they were, they were sitting down at a table and making plans and planning events and funneling money into things without the input of the community. And that's why the participation, we had the participation, or we're seeing the variance in participation that we did was because this isn't necessarily what the folks wanted, right? Who- I mean folks, who wouldn't want- the curriculum pieces weren't necessarily what the folks wanted, they weren't necessarily aligned with the interests of the residents.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Wow like I feel, I'm glad you said that because I think sometimes when those things happen, folks will go 'see they didn't want it' or whatever instead of saying like did we actually ask the community how they wanted or what curriculum they wanted to learn or even attempt to tailor it towards what the community like needs at that moment or says that they need at that moment, rather than just going like which is a very I would, I would say a more paternalistic view of I know what's best for you this is the curriculum you should want to learn. It's like someone maybe quote unquote should know something but if they don't want to do it, guess what they're not going to do, do it. And that's what that community was showing through action of like, that like this is cool and all but this is not really it's not drawing me in. It doesn't really seem like you thought of me in the conversation. And yeah kudos to you for figuring that out, but some folks would

literally just blame us:

see ah, see I knew the community didn't want this. It's like, no.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, definitely.

TYRA PARRISH:

You're the problem. ASHLEY SMITH: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah.

ASHLEY SMITH:

You can't make decisions for, for any folk or group of people without active input, you know? And I think that that's kind of, that kind of highlights the reason why deficit framing or like, yeah deficit framing, that's why it's kind of problematic. Because you go in with the assumption of a need you think these people or this group or this community, you think they need something so you try to provide it in a way that's just not aligned at all with reality, and I think that that kind of was really a wake-up call too for like funding, for funders and kind of like folks involved in community work because I feel oftentimes there's this idea of just like paper versus praxis or like paper versus real life. On paper and like on a Google doc and like you know, invoices everything checks off. Like this looks good, you know we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that, but like when you actually go physically into these communities, where you go, you drive there, you park your car, you get out, you go into the building, you wait, you set up, and you have people start coming in and you start talking with them, interacting with them, explaining, you know they ask, they're asking questions, they're engaging with you, you're explaining things to them, you're get- you're interacting with them to gauge their interests, you're building a rapport, that is different, that hits differently than just us- a person kind of, or a group of people at a table just writing out on a laptop, you know what looks good or what they think that they're going to do. It's completely different.

TYRA PARRISH:

Right.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Right. And I think that that should be, I feel like that should be kind of the quote-unquote gold standard of how we interact with people and how we even build relationships with people. Like I feel like I can't like you wouldn't, I would hope like, like just connecting with someone in person is always going to be a lot stronger than like if I was texting somebody. Like imagine, I can't, I can't even imagine some of my friendships if I just,'oh I've never met them in person but I've texted them all day and me and her are like this,' like it could be possible but it's just, it's something different to be in front of someone reading someone's energy and just being in community with someone in person. Obviously with Covid we did have to go more digital. I'm not knocking that but I'm just saying that like, I'm actually just kind of expanding upon what you just said about how if you don't, like what sounds good on paper does not always translate in person and it really doesn't translate in person if you're not a member of said community of which you are writing about. It's just like another layer of like disconnect.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, for sure.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, so thank you for sharing that because that's that's real.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

So, last question in this section, which is more about mentorship because you've discussed it and you also sound like you've been, you have also worked on a lot of non-profit organizations that provide those mentorship opportunities. So are there any mentorship programs or even professional organizations that you recommend to folks who are in the field of Public Health or particularly interested in some of the work that you're doing?

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, yeah so I would I'll speak to one that I'm a little bit more well-versed with is the, it's the UCSF Center for Science Education and Outreach so this is a department, or not a department or like an organization within UCSF that works specifically with underserved youth. They actually go out into like to the community to high schools for youth, minority youth who are interested in science so they kind of work, they have a really dope team I've actually interviewed for my capstone project I actually interviewed with the head of the organization and he kind of provided a really intricate overlay of the work that they do and I think is so dope. So they essentially they go out into the community and they, you know if the organization or the program is open for teams or youth who are just interested in medicine and they kind of mentor and provide leadership and guidance to kind of hone in on those skills, so that that fire that- or that desire or that interest in medicine and interest in medicine or the Sciences is- they kind of work to kind of, how do you say that? They grow it, they kind of work to grow it and I think that that's really really dope. Another is another program I'm not as familiar with it. I know it's called SF BUILD, it's like a internship or mentorship program through San Francisco State University for undergrad students who are interested in kind of research work, so I know that they collaborate with UCSF as well to kind of provide mentorship for undergraduate students who are interested in research, which I think is really dope.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, yeah and I love how like those programs are also kind of a, I would maybe say like two kind of critical points in regards to like kind of stepping more into your passions and or finding new ones and I love that there are like choosing those time in people's lives or sometimes you just need like, I wish I had someone in high school be like girl public health.

ASHLEY SMITH:

That's true.

TYRA PARRISH:

I would have saved so much time like you know, so like I can't imagine like as as a high schooler knowing the language of public health, like just what is medicine and really getting someone- like having someone who has that intention and goal to make sure that I know what's going on.

ASHLEY SMITH:

That sounds really dope.

TYRA PARRISH:

And then also obviously grad where like or undergrad where that's where everything is mixing and matching and you really figuring it out, so yeah it's a good time to get some clarity for sure.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Yeah, for sure I agree.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, so sadly we are coming to end of this amazing conversation. So I want to thank you Ashley for being here, for being open and honest and also walking us through some like SF context as well, because I'm not from SF so it's always nice to talk to someone who's, you know grew up there and has a lot of like history and stories to share. So I love that, also thank you for talking with us about your journey into UCSF and also your journey to the field of Public Health which is much needed and for just bringing the perspective of just being a black woman in academia, which is so real. It's a very unique experience. But, yeah I just want to express also how grateful I am to have met you while at Berkeley, also being a black woman and wanting to uplift that as well because you were a part of my journey and it was nice. Those, I think I had two classes with you, the two classes I had with you where I was like if Ashley here we good, like it's good, it's good,

and those are good classes too. ASHLEY SMITH:

Likewise, likewise. TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, so I'm going to end with questions about self-care and then feel free after to provide any closing thoughts or advice that you also want to give folks. So the first question is how do you personally define self-care and what are some ways in which you practice self-care?

ASHLEY SMITH:

Sure. How I personally define self-care, that's a really good question, I think self-care is just the act of doing something for yourself that makes you feel good. I think sometimes self-care, it looks different for other folks. Sometimes it can be like an actual action, like you know for example like I don't know, going for like a pedicure or going for a hair styling or it can be something like you know, kind of internal right, so you can tell yourself hey you know this week I'm not gonna let things that are out of, beyond my control worry me. So I think self-care is just anything that kind of works to better make you feel good and make you- and self-improvement, make you feel good about yourself.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, okay, and so last question is how do you nurture and stay connected with your community? Do you have any recent positive memories or experiences with your community?

ASHLEY SMITH:

How do I nurture and stay connected with my community? I would say one thing that I like to do when I do step into the community, it's just rapport building. I- a lot of people know me based on like my family and like based on just like genera- past generations. So I'd like to make sure that I establish like rapport when I, when I go to the community, just uplifting people, always speaking, having a smile on my face, and also just staying abreast at what's going on. I think that being informed, well informed is always a way to kind of stay on top of things because when you- I know it's a cliche but when you know better you do better, and you're able to make, you're able to contribute, you're able to make better decisions, and you're able to to help. Because like say for example if I didn't stay at top of, or abreast on what was going on in Shipyard right or if I didn't know, I wouldn't be able to go to the protest so-

TYRA PARRISH:

Right, right.

ASHLEY SMITH:

Or assemblies that they have about what's going on, I wouldn't know about like the law, the active or open lawsuits that they have going on. So just building rapport, staying abreast on what's going on and just always finding a way to kind of smile through this. Smile through the ups, smile through the downs, yeah.

TYRA PARRISH:

Yeah, yeah. Well thank you so much again for being here and thank you so much to the listeners who tuned in, and yeah, guys. Stay tuned for our next episode, thank you so much.